A young woman in Maine put flags all over the floor of the student center at her college. Susan Crane put the flags on the floor as an art project. I’m not sure what’s artistic about it, but what do I know?
I know that it is disrespectful to the flag to put it on the floor.
What do you think about this student’s “project”?
22 responses so far ↓
Julia // April 17, 2008 at 5:32 pm |
I have a lot of difficulty understanding and appreciating modern art. I remember once seeing (in some museum, I don’t remember which) a painting that was entirely blue. The whole thing was just the same shade of blue. My knee-jerk reaction is always “That’s not art” or “I / my eight-year-old cousin / my pet goldfish could do that.”
RG’s response: Modern art has reached its limits in terms of the silly pieces like the one that you mention. Solid-colored canvasases have been done to death. I like modern art, but only when it shows thought and planning on the part of the artist. I also like earlier art and am not offended when a contemporary artist produces something representational and accessible.
Jay Burns // April 17, 2008 at 7:17 pm |
I wish I knew more about this story. I would tend to agree that the floor, being walked on, is no place for the flag of the United States of America. However, it could be this teacher is simply a little obtuse when it comes to issues of decorum regarding the flag.
RG’s response: I also wish that I knew more about it.
mmacmurray // April 17, 2008 at 9:07 pm |
Jay Burns, here’s a link to a story in the Waterville, Maine, Morning Sentinel: http://tinyurl.com/62f4w5
I don’t know that I would have done it this way, but Ms Crane did set up an interesting social experiment.
RG’s response: That’s one way of looking at it. Maybe some good will come out of it when she publicizes the results.
Mervi // April 18, 2008 at 10:54 am |
R /Man
Art is one thing, yet to use the symbol of a nation for a rug. Sorry, very hard for me to grasp. Be the flag the stars and strips, the flag of Canada, England or the flag of any nation, even to China’s flag.
Personal opinion.
Mervi
http://passthisway.blogspot.com/
rjohnson68 // April 18, 2008 at 12:37 pm |
Context. Context. Context. The request for comment, regarding the teacher’s actions, without complete context, is a call for one to rely upon predetermine notions of art (modern art). If the author were truly interested in the opinions of others, regarding the teacher’s actions, and not an opportunity to rant in favor of, or against, art, then context would have been provided.
Americans, thankfully, regard the flag as a symbol of our ideal self, so it is quite difficult to imagine the acceptance of any action that shadows this regard.
RG’s response: Interesting comments. Thanks. As for context, the most I can usually do in this blog is to link to a news article or other source. When making my own comments, I comment on whatever the sources say, as I’m sure others do.
rjohnson68 // April 18, 2008 at 12:40 pm |
http://whatilearnedthisweek.wordpress.com/
mmacmurray // April 20, 2008 at 4:15 pm |
In case anyone is still interested, here’s a link from today’s Maine Sunday Telegram to a column about the flag project: http://tinyurl.com/6ceu4u
RG’s Response: It’s an interesting article and clears up a few things. I still don’t fully approve of the project, but I don’t feel quite as outraged as I did at first. I still think it was misguided.
modestypress // July 29, 2008 at 6:00 pm |
The map is not the road.
RG: That sounds like some kind of Buddhist platitude. I do get the point, though. I still don’t like the art project, but I get your point.
modestypress // July 30, 2008 at 2:15 pm |
Here’s a new take on “wrapping oneself in the flag.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372815_girl31.html
modestypress // July 30, 2008 at 3:24 pm |
Here’s a serious comment.
Personally, I am a shy, quiet, peace-loving introvert. I probably would not do anything rude or provocative with the flag.
One of the things the flag symbolizes is “free speech.” I think free speech includes doing provocative things with the flag such as using it for protest or using it for artistic experiments. Free speech also includes getting upset with people who use the flag for protest or for artistic experiments.
I would avoid punishing people who use free speech in either way. I think probably there are better things to do with one’s time than fussing about the flag one way or the other.
RG: Great comment. I am tempted to agree with you. The problem is that if the flag symbolizes free speech, then what does it mean to desecrate it? It would seem to me, logically speaking, that one is waiving one’s right to free speech and every other right that one has as an American. How can you express contempt for America and then demand that America honor your rights? Why would you even want America to recognize your rights if you loathe her that much.
No, I’m not for punishing people over it. I am for educating them, however, if they did it in ignorance. I am also for shunning them if they did it intentionally.
raptorlover // August 9, 2008 at 5:23 pm |
The flag is an important, the most important symbol of our nation. This country is not perfect – no country is – but it is, by far, much better than many others. I am a citizen of this country and have many rights. Along with rights comes responsibilities. If we are making good use of our rights as Americans, shouldn’t we show respect for the very symbol of those rights? There are rules as far as how we treat the flag. We do not leave it out in the rain. We do not fly it at night unless there is a alight shining on it. And…we do not put it on the floor, and especially do not walk on it. That is not art but a statement of hostility, of disrespect. I think this student takes the rights we have for granted.
Scott Erb // August 15, 2008 at 12:40 pm |
Clicked this story since it was listed as your top story. What a coincidence — this event took place at the very university where I teach, the art professor is a friend, and I think a lot of people misunderstood what took place. The woman who did the project is conservative and from a military family. She used facsimiles of the flag, and did not expect the reaction she got. I think one aspect of art is that it gets us thinking about various issues, campus discussions about this project saw people taking very different views based on their own experience, not so much political ideology.
During the campus debate I chimed in with a bit about patriotism that I later made a blog entry:
http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/patriotism/
RG: I read your post and commented. I agree that art can make us think, but I don’t think we have to cross the line of propriety to make people think. If I painted vile language on my neighbor’s house, nobody would call it art or say that it was good because it made people in my community think. My point is that certain things are wrong, even if an artist does them or some critic says that it is art.
Scott Erb // August 15, 2008 at 8:29 pm |
I see what you mean RG. But where is the line drawn? I tend to believe that it’s really important that the arts be as free as possible, so I’d err on the side of impropriety. Propriety itself is a cultural construct, after all. Should it not be critiqued itself? Back in 1913 “Le Sacre du printemps” opened in Paris, a Stravinsky ballet that shocked the senses. There was a near riot, as people were convinced that it was not ‘real music’ or ‘real ballet,’ and a debate ensued as to whether or not this was art or some kind of twisted joke. Stravinsky ultimately stood the test of time, as did many movements (dadaist, pop art, etc.) So it’s pretty fluid, I think. That doesn’t mean everyone has to like it, of course. Was the wrapped Reichstag by Christo art or a publicity stunt (as Chancellor Kohl thought)? I like the idea of having our sensibilities challenged now and then…but, of course, there does have to be a line somewhere, especially for very public art. I’m rambling. Sorry.
SPC Jessica Whitehead // August 18, 2008 at 2:04 am |
As an American Soldier who works as an EMT in a military hospital, I am greatly angered by this disgracful and cowardly act. If you want to see freedom step out your front door, and thank
God for the military that chooses to serve you.
We have been seperated from our family & friends, but we bear the cross freely.
If you could see the monsters that lurk in the dark which surrounds you, you wouldn’t be arguing over these things.
BUT Please, I implore you, Do Not disgrace the flag and nation for which many of my friends have perished.
We put ourselvces in harms way so you can have the right to dierespect us and out uniform.
Again, I am repectfully requestiong that you do not disgrace our flag which flies for the freedom which has been undergurded with the blood of the military personel who WANTED to maitain the freedoms which we enjoy in this great nation.
RG’s Reply: If you read my post and my comments, you know that I agree with you. I assume that you are addressing the girl who did the so-called art project and those who supported her. Thanks for your impassioned comment. May many readers take it to heart.
Harrietta // August 30, 2008 at 7:50 am |
what are you all on about?
The American flag is a beautiful thing, stars are such pretty shape I wonder how it found itself onto a flag in the first place, i’m not sure if it affensive to the flag if it is on the floor but dont you walk ontop of America every day it basically the same. If you try to see it as a thing of beauty and not as a symbol I think it is acceptable.
RG’s Reply: But it is a symbol, and there are actual laws about how it should be treated. One of those laws says that it should not be placed on the ground.
Carl // September 8, 2008 at 8:01 pm |
“Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.” I’m not sure if many of you will recognize the quote but it is by someone whom I am sure you respect, if for no other reason then that he smiles at you from an oval on the face of the one hundred dollar bill. This quote goes to the heart of this micro debate which is begging questions of freedom, oppression and the line that separates them. I am a sculptor by trade and training and I deal in the medium of concepts, so forgive me as I make the assumption that you do not have the tools to look at this work and see that your inflammation was its intention. I consider it my ethical duty to push the separating line from the side of freedom up to the neck of those who would see our freedoms guantanamoed and hold it there like a knife in the dark and pray that the concept therein hits the jugular. I love my country and I hate watching it get it filched away by the powerful that hold to your ideals.
RG’s Reply: So you love our country, but you don’t want to honor it’s flag? Am I understanding you correctly?
What does the girl’s art project have to do with security and Guantamo Bay? The only complaint anyone has made is that it is a disrespectful way to treat the flag. Nobody has suggested she be locked up and tortured or that she is aiding and abetting terrorists. My goodness!
sev // September 10, 2008 at 11:51 pm |
I am a Viet Nam Vet and I think this woman is disrespecting me and everyone else in this country by putting those flags on the floor! Hell in my days if a flag even touched the floor it was thought upon as disrespect. SHE IS A DISGRACE TO THIS COUNTRY….
Scott Erb // September 11, 2008 at 8:41 am |
Well, it was a facisimile of the flag, not real flags (she was careful about that), and she was a conservative, from a military family, whose veteran father supported her. As for me, I refuse to put any stock in a symbol, or treat symbols with reverence. I like the line from the Rush song “better the pride that resides, in a citizen of the world, then the pride that divides, when a colorful rag is unfurled.” (From “Territories” on the album “Power Windows”). Making the symbols of the state into religious like sacred entities is dangerous. I do not worship the state.
languagelover // September 11, 2008 at 3:38 pm |
If you buy a t-shirt from Old Navy that has the American flag on it, can you throw it on the floor? Or are you disgracing the flag? The artist wasn’t using a real flag, so where do you draw the line on what is appropriate?
Carl // September 13, 2008 at 11:21 am |
RG, i love my country because i don’t have to honor its symbol of the state, that is called freedom a concept most Americans link incorrectly to democracy. were i forced to honor its symbol i would be living under a dictatorship. allow me to reiterate, please. i love my country not its flag. i live in my country not on its flag.
this interaction between you and i, or more accurately yourself and the rest of u.s. is a fine demonstration of the social contract we all wittingly or not now live with. part of this contract that those who came before us saw as necessary to put into writing as separate from our “inalienable rights” (precisely because of the understanding that it is quite to the advantage of some to strip us of them all) comes in the form of the first amendment:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
now, what does all this have to do with terrorism get-mo and the state of freedom in America ?
i alluded to this in my first comment by using the word “filch” which means to purloin, take, swipe, lift, snaffle, pinch (dictionary.com) which is precisely what those who came to protest Susan Crane’s work were attempting to do to her freedom. to restrict the right to install something like this is to abridge the freedom of speech. the first step towards a nation i will not love. steps already taken in the patriot act which in effect wipes away the entire bill of rights and allows for extraordinary renditions and the death of habeas corpus.
strangely, though this was not the intention of her project it seams to be what people are taking away from it, and thus more valid then her intentions.
Adriana // October 14, 2008 at 8:49 am |
Huh?
The House Of Quality // December 20, 2008 at 5:41 pm |
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